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Prices (General)

by Tony Kosten ⌂ @, Monday, March 20, 2006, 13:50 (6970 days ago)

What do members prefer, the current $10 per month, or the former yearly tariff?
Also, do you think it is too expensive, and if so what would be the right price?:-)

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by Mark Radley @, Monday, March 20, 2006, 14:13 (6970 days ago) @ Tony Kosten

? What do members prefer, the current $10 per month, or the former yearly
? tariff?
? Also, do you think it is too expensive, and if so what would be the right
? price?:-)

Hi Tony,

Thanks for your efforts in getting the site back up and running.

I was not aware that it now costs $10 per month to subscribe. When I joined last March I paid $50 for a 1 year subscription, which obviously is preferable to paying $120 over the course of a year.

Without knowing what you would have in mind for an annual subscription fee it is difficult to answer your question.

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by Tony Kosten ⌂ @, Monday, March 20, 2006, 17:59 (6969 days ago) @ Mark Radley

I was thinking of charging less and having more subscribers!! :-)

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by Euclid @, Stafford, Monday, March 20, 2006, 20:42 (6969 days ago) @ Tony Kosten

? I was thinking of charging less and having more subscribers!! :-)

To be honest, I think the yearly sub is about right, I along with a few others no doubt will be feeling a little apprehensive not wanting our fingers burnt a second time as it were.

I joined in the early days and was swayed by a half price offer, it cost me about ?17 if i remember.

Then I saw to my dismay the price rocket for future subs and the site plummet despite the promises on the front page and via emails and newsletters.

You are going to have to work hard if you are going to convince me that this site has any future and to part with anything resembling a subscription.

So tony, the floor is yours...
:-)

Euclid

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by Steven E DuCharme, Tuesday, March 21, 2006, 00:38 (6969 days ago) @ Tony Kosten

? What do members prefer, the current $10 per month, or the former yearly
? tariff?
? Also, do you think it is too expensive, and if so what would be the right
? price?:-)

Free is always a popular price(from the buyer's perspective) :-D

Could a pay per use system be implemented?

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by Don Lester, Tuesday, March 21, 2006, 05:23 (6969 days ago) @ Tony Kosten

? What do members prefer, the current $10 per month, or the former yearly
? tariff?
? Also, do you think it is too expensive, and if so what would be the right
? price?:-)

A few comments to the folks thinking about a 'pay as you go' system, or some such thing like that. For small businesses, which this is, the billing process generally has significant overhead. It isn't like Visa where everything is automated. Billing oftentimes entails at least a slight manual process. So, a pay as you go system will probably be more expensive than you will want it to be. True, it doesn't have to be that way, but the only way for it not to be that way is to pay to have a pay as you go system developed and automated, which is development costs that small businesses usually don't have, so catch 22.

By that same token, you can often expect a significant discount on an annual subscription vs a monthly one for the exact same reason. There is a cost to do billing every month, and they don't have to incur that expense and can subsequently pass that on in a savings for annual subscriptions. Additionally there is value in money now vs money later, and paid subscribers look good to investors. So, it has a lot going for it. What this overhead is for IYC I do not know, but back in the early ISP days when I did that for a living I gave really deep discounts to annual vs monthly subscribers. It just made sense.

Having said all that, I would love to hear some kind of 'vision statement' that describes where the site is headed. Now that it appears there is new leadership, there are probably also new ideas.

Some thoughts of my own...

The Daniel King HGIYC is a really nice feature. I certainly hope it continues as a weekly offering. I don't think the value of going through a GM level game once a week with professional annotation can ever be over-emphasized. My scores are never very good on this section, and occasionally I don't understand why a move I considered isn't even mentioned, but it is probably because I still have a lot to learn (which I do).

The monthly tactics puzzles are also a very nice augmentation to the series I do regularly at the Chess Tactics Server (chess.emrald.net). The puzzles on that site are expected to be quick 3 to 12 seconds to solve type puzzles. The puzzles here were expected to be something you have to think on. Either by accident or design, early in the year we gained the ability to do the puzzles in all three sections. I really liked this as I wanted more puzzles. It would be nice to see this continue, even though it was never originally intended to work this way.

The monthly strategy stuff could be expanded on. I am finding myself losing on this more and more. A typical scenario for me is to muddle through the opening without making any horrible blunders, achieve what appears to be a balanced middle game, and then have no real idea what to do next to improve my position. I end up making fairly passive moves waiting to see what my opponent does. If he blunders I pounce. If he doesn't blunder, my passive play is my ultimate undoing. Changing the frequency of the strategy lesson from monthly to weekly, like HGIYC, would allow more reinforcement of the concepts, and even allow the lessons to build on one another and have continuity. When they are monthly, too much time passes between each one, in my opinion.

The 'Your Move' section isn't inherently bad, but it seems to be a duplicate of existing content. The puzzles are provided in a different format, and scored differently, but in the end they are another set of monthly tactical puzzles. Any of those could appear as normal puzzles and not be out of place.

With the apparent affiliation with ChessPublishing.com, it would seem to make sense that the IYC opening repertoire section close its doors. Maybe have IYC members get a discount on one opening section in chesspublishing.com, but given the annual price on one section is only around $20 US that is already pretty cheap (cheaper than the monthly cost here x 12). I have no idea what content lies behind one of those links, but it is a safe bet it is more detailed than what would be here simply due to the amount of time it has had to develop over there.

The coaching section, well, I don't know what to say about the coaching section. I never participated in that, and probably never will. It is kind of expensive, and that isn't to say I think it is too expensive, it is just hard to imagine a novice like myself getting any real value from the sessions. I already know several weaknesses I have that I can't get enough time to fix as it is. I once commented about how initial subscribers were promised an assessment of their play and that mine would be the equivalent of a drunken orangutan. After a year of study, the orangutan is now only slightly inebriated.

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by Don Lester, Tuesday, March 21, 2006, 05:23 (6969 days ago) @ Tony Kosten

Something fun would be to grab a random subscriber every so often and challenge them to a game. It would probably be painful for the GM playing the game, but it would be a rare opportunity for people who otherwise would never get to have such a profound ass-kicking. Of course, contingent upon getting the game the subscriber would have to agree to have the humbling experience annotated and posted on the site for everyone, including the person whose game it was, to view.

But, how much is too much? The annual price I paid as a pre-subscriber was very low. I can hardly complain that I was taken to the cleaners. I have no idea how much we have to pay the GMs that contribute content, nor even how many subscribers the site actually has. But, if there was more weekly content that $10/month figure is not so unreasonable, especially if there is a discount for an annual commitment.

So, how is that for a short answer?

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by Tony Kosten ⌂ @, Tuesday, March 21, 2006, 13:23 (6969 days ago) @ Don Lester

Thanks Don and others, it is really important that you let me know what you think about the site as I only look at it from a GM perspective, which may not be exactly the same ... :-)
Firstly, there is no chance of 'getting your fingers burnt' a second time, although I can understand your apprehension. Anyone who was a subscriber at ChessPublishing.com 3/4 years ago when I took over will tell you how much it has improved (I hope!): better design, a lot of new features, better writers, etc. ;-)
I don't know about a pay per use system, wouldn't that mean a lot of hassle putting your credit card details in each time? I was thinking of either bringing back the yearly sub as an addition to the monthly one, or even scrapping the monthly one altogether! The yearly sub should be reasonable, in my view, say $40, with a reduction for current subscribers?! I certainly don't think it should be any more, for instance at the moment you can get absolutely everything off ChessPublishing for $99/year and that site is enormous with 6 year's worth of openings material!
I will definitely keep the HYIYC stuff, although it might only be two-weekly for a month or two. :-( Obviously the tactics will continue every month, and I think it is important to have access to all 3 - for those who are really keen!
More strategy stuff, that seems like a good idea, and I agree that the Your Move tactics are perhaps an unnecessary duplication. I can ask Glenn to do Endgames instead, in the same format, perhaps or something else?
I was thinking to offer some other types of material as well, any thoughts? Did anyone get the Newsletter, was it any good?
I guess subscribers could have cheaper access to ChessPublishing, but I am not sure that is such a good idea as the material there is aimed a stronger players (Adams, Svidler, and many other GMs subscribe!)

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by paaneater2, Tuesday, March 21, 2006, 17:33 (6968 days ago) @ Tony Kosten

? I guess subscribers could have cheaper access to ChessPublishing, but I am
? not sure that is such a good idea as the material there is aimed a stronger
? players (Adams, Svidler, and many other GMs subscribe!)

How about otherway about? Say a six section subscriber there could get free access here?

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by Tony Kosten ⌂ @, Tuesday, March 21, 2006, 17:52 (6968 days ago) @ paaneater2

I suppose we could make it free for everybody, but then how would we manage to pay everyone for the material we use? :-)
It might be possible to arrange a cheaper price for ChessPublishing subscribers if they were interested?!

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by Anonymous, Wednesday, March 22, 2006, 05:53 (6968 days ago) @ Tony Kosten

? I suppose we could make it free for everybody, but then how would we manage
? to pay everyone for the material we use? :-)
? It might be possible to arrange a cheaper price for ChessPublishing
? subscribers if they were interested?!

Yes! The fees obviously need to be high enough to cover the costs and more. When I first signed up, I thought $100 a year was pretty reasonable. And I would be willing to re-up if the tactical exercises continue.

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by siegrun @, Wednesday, March 22, 2006, 12:11 (6968 days ago) @ Tony Kosten

? I suppose we could make it free for everybody, but then how would we manage
? to pay everyone for the material we use? :-)
It seems that a lot of subscribers want to resubscribe & of course, expect new material. So, what happens to the old stuff? It seems a pity to waste it. So, why don't you save it & make it accessible to newcomers? You could charge them ? 20 for the year, which wouldn't cost you anything at all, but gives them a great intro to regular learning & all that.
There is so much free stuff on the web, it's quite unbelievable. I never intended to continue learning on IYC, but I've been recommending it until I heard that yous were pricing yourselves out of action!
I'll continue looking at the forum to see what you decide in the end & if it's worthwhile to recommend it.
g l, siegrun

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by Don Lester, Wednesday, March 22, 2006, 07:54 (6968 days ago) @ Tony Kosten

? I was thinking of
? either bringing back the yearly sub as an addition to the monthly one, or
? even scrapping the monthly one altogether! The yearly sub should be
? reasonable, in my view, say $40, with a reduction for current
? subscribers?!

I can tell you without a doubt that just the tactics puzzles and HGIYC are enough to make me re-subscribe for $40/year.

? More strategy stuff, that seems like a good idea, and I agree that the
? Your Move tactics are perhaps an unnecessary duplication. I can ask Glenn
? to do Endgames instead, in the same format, perhaps or something else?

Endgame stuff would be a great addition. I think we all can think of games where we should have won and we goofed up the endgame and had to settle for a draw (or even worse, lost the game completely).

? I was thinking to offer some other types of material as well, any
? thoughts? Did anyone get the Newsletter, was it any good?

The last newsletter I received was in June. I am personally not a big fan of newsletters. I originally subscribed so I would be sure not to miss anything, but a well organized web site can deliver all the content a newsletter would have.

? I guess subscribers could have cheaper access to ChessPublishing, but I am
? not sure that is such a good idea as the material there is aimed a stronger
? players (Adams, Svidler, and many other GMs subscribe!)

Well, like I said earlier, the pricing there is pretty cheap anyway. I would imagine a $20 subscription to have access to the 'E4' section would keep most amateur chess players satiated for quite some time.

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by Tony Kosten ⌂ @, Tuesday, March 21, 2006, 21:35 (6968 days ago) @ Tony Kosten

I have just put a poll on Link - please vote! :-)

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by Tony Kosten ⌂, France, Tuesday, November 23, 2010, 12:29 (5261 days ago) @ Tony Kosten

Hi everyone,
Well, I say everyone, but I'm aware that the Forum is no where near as popular as it used to be, so it is quite possible no-one sees this! :crying:
Still, a couple of things: firstly, I have almost completed my plan to fill the site with content and have reduced the number of new articles being added (you've probably noticed that they have become bi-monthly), but will make this occasional from now on.
New tactics will still be added every couple of months, and new HGIYC articles as soon as GM King writes and sends them (he has run out of older ones in CB format). GM Flear's articles will only come occasionally as there are already so many!
If any of you see the front page you will see that we are offering some Skype training with WGM Sandu, and if anyone is interested in this (free at first!) please write to support@improveyourchess.com.
As the expense of new articles is reduced I will now reduce the prices somewhat! The current full price is $49.99 while current subscribers pay $20 less to resubscribe. I will reduce both of these, but to what? Any thoughts would be appreciated. :ok:
Thanks for all your support over the years!

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by tapestry @, Hampshire, Friday, November 26, 2010, 21:45 (5257 days ago) @ Tony Kosten

Hi Tony
The forum is probably quiet because there hasn't been much to discuss. Occasionally there is a query but not much else. The most interesting part of the site was the Unlock Your Genius as this was interactive.

In terms of re-subscribing, I'm not sure I would at the present time as things seem too quiet. A lot of similar articles can be found on other websites with free access. :-( In terms of the coaching, that has been excellent, and would be one reason to continue.

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by Tony Kosten ⌂, France, Saturday, November 27, 2010, 11:48 (5257 days ago) @ tapestry

The most interesting part of the site was the Unlock Your Genius as this was interactive.

Unfortunately, less than 1% of the subscribers actually took part in the Forum discussions. :-(

In terms of re-subscribing, I'm not sure I would at the present time as things seem too quiet. A lot of similar articles can be found on other websites with free access. :-(

Yes, fair enough, this is why I think the resubscription price should be less. Alternatively, I can go the route of many other sites and get the income from advertising instead of subscriptions. :surprised:

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by tapestry @, Hampshire, Saturday, November 27, 2010, 15:17 (5256 days ago) @ Tony Kosten

I do wonder if the articles that you already have could be structured into some sort of training programme that a player could work their way through, rather than being left for the player to pick a topic at random as it seemed interesting at the time (guess what I tend to do?). An example of how that might be structured is Yusupov's Build Up You Chess series of books.

The thing that makes this site stand out from others is the moderator (- you!). I can't think of another site that I could post a question on the forum to be answered by an identified GM.

Perhaps a mailshot/questionnaire to subscribers asking what they want from the site or specific questions on how they think it could be improved would be helpful, rather than relying on the forum to reach people. I already feel that I am atypical because I'm writing on the forum and that my views are not the norm.

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by Tony Kosten ⌂, France, Saturday, November 27, 2010, 21:07 (5256 days ago) @ tapestry


The thing that makes this site stand out from others is the moderator (- you!).


Thanks! ;-)

Perhaps a mailshot/questionnaire to subscribers asking what they want from the site or specific questions on how they think it could be improved would be helpful, rather than relying on the forum to reach people. I already feel that I am atypical because I'm writing on the forum and that my views are not the norm.

Maybe, although the previous mailshots we've sent out didn't get much reaction.

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by Tony Kosten ⌂, France, Saturday, December 04, 2010, 14:24 (5250 days ago) @ Tony Kosten

OK, I think I'm going to change the subscription from the current $49.99 to $29.99, and, perhaps more importantly, the resubscription price from the current $29.99 to a ridiculously small $9.99! :lol:

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by tapestry @, Hampshire, Sunday, December 05, 2010, 15:19 (5248 days ago) @ Tony Kosten

OK, I think I'm going to change the subscription from the current $49.99 to $29.99, and, perhaps more importantly, the resubscription price from the current $29.99 to a ridiculously small $9.99! :lol:

Thanks Tony.:-D

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by Strad, Wednesday, December 08, 2010, 13:12 (5246 days ago) @ Tony Kosten

Hi Tony!:
The only reason i do not use to write in this forum is my poor and painful english.:-D
By the way
could the reduction affect also the coaching club?

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by Tony Kosten ⌂, France, Wednesday, December 08, 2010, 17:49 (5245 days ago) @ Strad

could the reduction affect also the coaching club?

The problem is that this money goes to the coaches, so I would have to pay them less ... and already I don't think I pay them enough for all the work they do! :-(

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by Cristiano, Milan, Thursday, January 13, 2011, 14:42 (5209 days ago) @ Tony Kosten

My subscription will expire in 7 days, i saw the price offer, but i don't know if i'll renew because the site was growning when i joined, now it seems like is passing away again...
The sections are not updated so much, i liked the unlock your genius but you didn't update anymore, and the opening section is the same of one year ago, just too poor to stay there. I always thought that a subscription should give me some discount for the coaching, but here the coaching service is very expensive! I know several IMs and GMs who are much cheaper.
There are a lot of collections of tactics available in other sites, i think the only appealing and updated section is Daniel King's.
Should a section convince me to give you some money or should i look for a more complete bundle?

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by Tony Kosten ⌂, France, Thursday, January 13, 2011, 17:00 (5209 days ago) @ Cristiano

My subscription will expire in 7 days, i saw the price offer, but i don't know if i'll renew because the site was growning when i joined, now it seems like is passing away again...

The site is so full of material we are running out of new ideas! This is the reason I decided to reduce the price so much, of course.

The sections are not updated so much, i liked the unlock your genius but you didn't update anymore,

Unfortunately there was so little reaction to this that it is difficult to justify renewing it, barely 1% of subscribers ever got involved.

and the opening section is the same of one year ago, just too poor to stay there.

Openings are not really the point of this site.

I always thought that a subscription should give me some discount for the coaching, but here the coaching service is very expensive! I know several IMs and GMs who are much cheaper.

Really? Personally I am normally much more expensive! :-)

Should a section convince me to give you some money or should i look for a more complete bundle?

If you've already downloaded all the material and done all the tactics then I can certainly understand you wanting to look elsewhere - hopefully you've also got a lot stronger! ;-)

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by Strad, Friday, January 14, 2011, 15:34 (5208 days ago) @ Tony Kosten

Hello:
In mi opinion there is plenty of very valuable material to justify staying here for a long time since this website has become my steady diet for daily training.
When i joined this site my rating was around 1750 (ICC standard) and today is 1964!!
the hard work is clearly being paid off. I hope to carry this improvement to my OTB soon.

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by Tony Kosten ⌂, France, Friday, January 14, 2011, 17:07 (5208 days ago) @ Strad

When i joined this site my rating was around 1750 (ICC standard) and today is 1964!!
the hard work is clearly being paid off. I hope to carry this improvement to my OTB soon.

Great! Working on your chess is so rewarding as it really does bring results! :-)

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